by 
The Tears of Ibn Bāz
(When Ibn Jibreen and Salmaan al-Awdah, along with Aidh al-Qarni Debated Ibn Bāz رحمه الله)
الدمعة البازية في اللقاءات و الأسئلة
(مناظرة بين الشيخ بن باز و سلمان العودة – بن جبرين – عبد الوهاب الطريرى – عائض القرنى)
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Transcript:
Ibn Jibreen asked:
The explanation of Ibn `Abbaas of the verse concerning the verse: “And whomsoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, then such are the unbelievers,” that it is unbelief lesser than the unbelief that exits a person from Islaam (kufr-doon-kufr)?
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
So long as he does not make [that judging] to be permissible for himself. Meaning: he judges with bribery upon his enemy or in favour of his friend, then this is kufr-doon-kufr (unbelief which does not exit the doer from Islaam). However, if he makes judging by other than Revelation to be permissible, if he makes the abandonment of the Sharee`ah permissible, then he is an unbeliever with the major kufr [that exits him from Islaam]. So the verse refers to kufr-doon-kufr, similar to what was said by Ibn `Abbaas (radiyallaahu `anhumaa), Mujaahid and others.
An attendee:
That is a major problem at this point, may Allaah pardon you, that is the issue of exchanging the Sharee`ah Rulings with [foreign] constitutions…
Shaikh Ibn Baaz interrupts:
This is a point of investigation, if he does so (i.e. exchanges the Sharee`ah) making it permissible (istihlaal)…
The same attendee interrupts:
He may claim that he is not making permissible this act?
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
If he does so, making that permissible, then he has disbelieved [exiting Islaam]. But when he does so to please his people, or other than that, then it is kufr lesser than [major] kufr, that does not exit from Islaam. So it is obligatory upon the Muslims to fight [the one who makes permissible (istihlaal) exchanging the Sharee`ah] if they have the power to do so, so that he adheres to the Sharee`ah. So whoever changes the Religion, whether it be the Zakaat or other than that, then he is fought until he adheres.
The same questioner:
He has exchanged the Prescribed Punishments, he has exchanged the prescribed punishment for fornication and other than that.
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
Meaning that he does not establish the Prescribed Punishments (al-hudood), so he applies a discretionary punishment in place of execution.
Ibn Jibreen:
Or imprisonment.
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
Or imprisonment.
Questioner:
He institutes a constitution, may Allaah pardon you.
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
The origin is not declaring [major] kufr upon him until he makes that permissible. He is a sinner – he has committed a major sin and is deserving of punishment. It is kufr-doon-kufr until he makes that permissible.
Questioner:
Until he makes that permissible (istihlaal)??!! But whether someone has made something permissible is in the heart, and we do not know about that?!
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
That is right. If he claims that, if he claims that he has made that permissible (i.e. made it halaal).
Ibn Jibreen:
If he permits (makes halaal) fornication so long as both parties are pleased..
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
Yes, that is [major] kufr.
Ibn Jibreen completes:
A woman is free to do as she pleases with herself.
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
If they make that halaal with pleasure, then it is [major] kufr.
Salmaan Al-Awdah:
Even if he judges by an abrogated law such as the law of the Jews? And he obligates that upon the people, and he makes that into generalised legislation, and he punishes whoever rejects that with imprisonment, exile and death and such things?
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
Does he ascribe that to the Sharee`ah or not?
Salmaan Al-Awdah:
But he judges by it without commenting on it. He has made it a replacement!
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
If he ascribes this law to the Sharee`ah, then it is kufr.
Salmaan Al-Awdah:
Is that major kufr or lesser kufr?
Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
It is major kufr if he ascribes that to the Sharee`ah, but if he does not ascribe that to the Sharee`ah and it is a law introduced legislated by himself, then it is not major kufr, such as the one who lashes the people without a legal Sharee`ah reason. He lashes the people or kills them due to his own whims and desires. He may kill some people due to his desires overcoming him………
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Source: [abukhadeejah.com/the-tears-of-ibn-baaz-when-ibn-jibreen-and-salmaan-al-awdah-debated-ibn-baaz/]
